sholio: (Torchwood-Owen)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2020-05-05 12:25 am

Torchwood came for my soul

Having watched the "Dead Man Walking/Day in the Death" duology (Torchwood 2x07-08), I still think this is some of the most affecting, and perhaps among the best, sci-fi TV I've ever seen -- questionable special effects and occasionally questionable writing choices aside, it's just good. I think it might be the best Came Back Wrong story I've ever seen, certainly one of the only ones that's about learning to live with the Wrong rather than treating it as a convenient source of angsty My Friend/My Enemy cannon fodder or a plot-of-the-week that's resolved by the end.

It makes me think about just how much I love "learning to live with the terrible thing" as a narrative trope. It's certainly why I like stories about characters adapting to disabilities or trauma, but it's also something I truly love in various sci-fi and fantasy incarnations, especially the "but who am I?" version in which characters have to deal with navigating being a clone, a human weapon, a robot, or otherwise having their view of themselves undermined thoroughly by revelations about their true nature and/or other people messing with them for their entire life.

It's something I am continually disappointed by, in conventional TV sci-fi that enjoys fixing things by the end of the episode or else shuffling inconvenient clones/alternate-universe selves/robot doubles/etc offscreen to never deal with them again. I still remember very vividly one of the first times I really got hit with this feeling as a child, back in the '80s, watching that one Star Trek episode in which Q becomes temporarily depowered and then gets his powers back by the end of the episode. I can't even tell you how profoundly I did not want that ending; the story I wanted was the story of being a god, thinking of other beings as disposable, and then losing it all, becoming one of them, and having to learn to live with that.

"Lose it all, pick yourself up and go on" is a type of story I never tire of. And this one is just so good. It would have been so easy for the show to either fix everything or just leave it on a note of "welp, Owen's back on the team and things are back to normal" and never really talk about it again. But they didn't, and I love them for it. What happened to Owen was horrible. He died. And then he Came Back Wrong, and they kinda-sorta handled that -- and the show could easily have left it on the triumphant "he fought death and won" note at the end of the first episode in the duology and not deal with it ever again.

.... but they don't. He's not alive and not dead; he's trapped in the prison of his own dead body, with no idea how long it will endure -- he could drop dead two minutes from now or live forever; he can't breathe or eat or have sex or sleep; if he bruises or breaks a bone or cuts himself, it won't heal. Practically speaking, his life is a living nightmare. Everything he lived for, from drinking to running field missions with the team, is gone.

And there are a lot of shows -- most shows -- where that would be The End. He'd either be completely healed by the episode's end, or he'd sacrifice himself heroically for the team. Instead, it's an episode about figuring out how to live with it.

It's bad; they don't downplay that. Especially to go from being perfectly healthy to that in the pull of a gun's trigger. But ... it's basically a disability, just a very weird one. I appreciate that the show never explicitly compared Owen's condition to a disability in any overt way, while also hitting every beat of the emotional arc of learning to deal with something truly horrendous happening to your body, from the point of view of an emotionally damaged asshole who's always shut everyone out, who now has to learn to accept help and let people in. Owen only really figures out how to love his teammates, and vice versa, after he loses them and they lose him and then he comes back (sort of) in a version that means he really, truly needs them, in a way he never has before.

And he hates this! He's terrible at it! He'd literally rather be dead; he just can't figure out a way to die! He's miserable and terrified and furious, and he's lashing out, and he's genuinely awful to them, and he hurts them. But, to be fair, some of them are pretty awful to him at times too. (Jack, let me talk to you about your people management skills in this episode.)

Watching this episode, in general, made me think about how much I've been soaking up the idea from Tumblr that some things We Do Not Talk About, when the entire second half of the duology is about suicide, framed as a conversation between two suicidal people. It's messy and angry and prickly, as it should be. Maybe it doesn't showcase the right things to say. Maybe therapy should proooobably have come up at some point; maybe, extra-narratively speaking, suicidal depression should have been framed as an illness rather than a choice. Look, I don't know if this is a good episode about suicide. But it felt, to me, like a true episode about suicide. I love the thing Owen says at the end, about finding that little spark of light, the thing that gets you through the moment: a smoke, a drink, a friend, a song; the thing that makes it possible to keep going through this minute, and then maybe the one after that. I remember a friend of mine, back in college (with major depression, recovering from drug addiction) saying almost exactly this to me once; it's something that's always stuck with me. This is a dumbass sci-fi show with poor-taste sex jokes and fart jokes, nonsensical plotting and an incredibly gratuitous date rape in the first episode, played for laughs, that I still try to pretend never happened. But you know what? Something about this episode rings true. It latches onto the dark places in my brain and gives them a little bit of light.

It doesn't stop me from wanting a magic fix for Owen, or a better ending than canon eventually gave him -- not in this episode, which was sublime, but at the end of the season. I still can't believe the same show that gave us a character arc this lovely also gave us, well, whateverthefuck the last episode of this season was.

But when this show was good, God it was good.

(On a purely shallow note, that one bit in 2x08 with Owen sticking his hand into the electrical box and killing the power by electrocuting himself while the horrified security guard stares at him and he grins like a loon is one of my favorite dead!Owen things. I genuinely couldn't remember if it was an actual thing from the show, or something from a fic. I love that it's an actual scene in the show. I love even more that it was literally PART OF THEIR PLAN, and not an improvised desperation move, because he had brought something to wrap around his hand with him. Owen, you could have just flipped the circuit breakers, but no.)
cornerofmadness: (Default)

[personal profile] cornerofmadness 2020-05-05 03:31 pm (UTC)(link)
You make a lot of good points here. This arc with Owen was some of my favorites moments from the show as well. It felt real emotionally, like the scriptwriter had done their research and/or was very familiar with the idea of finding the little things to carry you through a depressive episode because in my own experience sometimes that's the only way to keep breathing.

While not SF, one of the things I like best about Prodigal Son is its look at mental health, about not being 'fixed' by the end of the episode, of having a main character so damaged he is ready to give himself ECT just to forget the ugly in his life.

And yes, it might have been more satisfying to see Q remain human (though I'm not sure he would have survived long).
sovay: (Rotwang)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-05 07:41 pm (UTC)(link)
And yes, it might have been more satisfying to see Q remain human (though I'm not sure he would have survived long).

I remember seeing that episode for the first time and it seemed obvious that a depowered, mortal Q was going to join the crew and the Enterprise would just be stuck with him and it would be existentially obnoxious for all concerned but so interesting and I was so disappointed.
sovay: (Rotwang)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-05 08:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I was so annoyed by that.

I watched relatively little TNG when it was on the air and I have a vivid memory of my frustrated expectations for this episode. It was annoying!

Looking back on it, I'm not even sure why I didn't think there would be a reset, because most TV was very reset-heavy at the time.

I was disappointed by TV resets even as a child, watching episodes where someone learned a lesson and by the next episode had forgotten it so the status quo could keep quo'ing on. I didn't understand the point of having the lessons in the first place if they weren't going to stick. It didn't work that way in books, movies, or life. I had the wrong media protocols.

To be fair to both of us, the main cast of TNG did change on occasion—Tasha Yar, Dr. Pulaski, not to mention cast members who recurred so often they were functionally regulars—so the show wouldn't even have been breaking its own rules to acquire Q on a more permanent basis. I wonder if anyone even considered it.

But it was my preferred ending for sure. It would have been so much more interesting and fun and opened up so many new story avenues.

I assume there's fic?
cornerofmadness: (Default)

[personal profile] cornerofmadness 2020-05-05 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I'll be honest I never expected him to stay human because the writers like having him as Q way too much but it would have been interesting had they gone the other way
sovay: (Rotwang)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-05 10:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I'll be honest I never expected him to stay human because the writers like having him as Q way too much but it would have been interesting had they gone the other way

Even Q human for a season would have been more interesting to me than one and done by the end of the episode.
cornerofmadness: (Default)

[personal profile] cornerofmadness 2020-05-05 10:08 pm (UTC)(link)
I absolutely agree
cornerofmadness: (Default)

[personal profile] cornerofmadness 2020-05-05 08:59 pm (UTC)(link)
That's good to know
yhlee: Alto clef and whole note (middle C). (d20 (credit: bag_fu on LJ))

[personal profile] yhlee 2020-05-05 06:11 pm (UTC)(link)
especially the "but who am I?" version in which characters have to deal with navigating being a clone, a human weapon, a robot, or otherwise having their view of themselves undermined thoroughly by revelations about their true nature and/or other people messing with them for their entire life.

You know, [personal profile] sholio, the more I learn about your taste in tropes the more I think we share an id. XD
sovay: (Renfield)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-05 07:39 pm (UTC)(link)
every beat of the emotional arc of learning to deal with something truly horrendous happening to your body, from the point of view of an emotionally damaged asshole who's always shut everyone out, who now has to learn to accept help and let people in.

My sole experience of Torchwood is the miniseries Children of Earth (2009), from which I took away Peter Capaldi, but you have sold me on at least these two episodes with Owen. I will almost certainly be incredibly upset by them, but nonetheless.

Just for unpacking's sake, what is Tumblr's idea of Things We Do Not Talk About and what happened at the end of the season?
sovay: (Silver: against blue)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-05 10:15 pm (UTC)(link)
I completely forgot Capaldi was in Children of Earth!

It's the entire reason I started paying attention to him! Every now and then I think about trying to track down the show just to rewatch his scenes!

And the sci-fi plotting (and occasionally the acting/characterization) is very goofy old-school ridonkulous sci-fi, just so you're prepared for that.

Alas that I have no experience whatsoever with wrenchingly effective emotional dynamics in shows with silly plots. I appreciate the detailed breakdown of recommendation and I'll see where I can find it streaming.

(I am sorry there was a gratuitous first-episode date rape; that's a hard thing for a show to get over.)

I was referring to a pervasive idea on Tumblr that some topics are too serious to be dealt with in this kind of fiction, i.e. you can write about them if you do it very seriously in Approved Ways Only.

Ah, yes. I hate that.

It's not a good episode anyway, but they killed off half the cast, including Owen, for very spurious plot reasons.

Did they think they were getting canceled? What the hell.

[edit] OKAY LOOK FROM YOUR OWEN ICON I DIDN'T RECOGNIZE BURN GORMAN HE LOOKS MUCH MORE STANDARD HUMAN THERE THAN EVERY OTHER TIME I'VE SEEN HIM I WOULD WATCH BURN GORMAN READ THE INGREDIENTS OFF A BOX OF CORN FLAKES I AM QUITE INVESTED IN WATCHING HIS BITS OF THE SHOW NOW
Edited (IMPORTANT UPDATE) 2020-05-05 22:21 (UTC)
sovay: (Silver: against blue)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-06 12:00 am (UTC)(link)
I dearly wish I could find something else he's in where he has this amount of range and depth.

I discovered him with Pacific Rim (2013) where you may be able to tell how I felt about his character from multiple photos in comments and the fact that I gave him the pull quote, also later on there was fic, but otherwise I've seen him only in random small roles, which makes the idea of a substantive arc such as you describe on Torchwood very attractive, even if it ended in a tire fire. I have seen gifs of him from The Expanse and Turn, but then there's the problem where I don't watch much open-ended TV.

I know right??? Good thing, that.

I want the people in my stories to be real. As long as they get that right, I can deal with the rest.

If you would like season 2 acquired via ~methods~, I have it on an old backup hard drive from when I watched it during its original run and could make it available for you to acquire.

I have just asked [personal profile] spatch to look into the matter with his usual suspects and if they do not come through, I may well fall back on your methods. [edit] The usual suspects did not come through. What are my options from here on?
Edited (only be sure always to call it please "research") 2020-05-06 00:10 (UTC)
sovay: (Cho Hakkai: intelligence)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-06 01:06 am (UTC)(link)
I loved him in Pacific Rim! Although in my case this was at least partly due to having already seen Torchwood and falling for him there.

Well, I can verify that he is desperately endearing in that role on no prior acquaintance, so I look forward.

What's your internet connection like? I can zip it tonight and leave it uploading overnight (I think that'll work; our internet connection isn't fast enough to do it during the day - it'll probably be about ~6 Gb) or I could plunk it onto a flash drive and mail it to you.

We have internet sufficient to handle that kind of download and if you have the capability to send the zip via Dropbox, I can send it on to [personal profile] spatch who knows how to futz with files until they play on the Roku. Trying to synch up our iTunes is almost certainly a doomed endeavor since Rob runs Windows, the Roku is a Linux box, and Bertie is Very Old. Thank you so much!
sovay: (Rotwang)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-06 01:20 am (UTC)(link)
I do have a Dropbox account! I also have basically unlimited space on the server I run my website from.

If it's a website link, [personal profile] spatch says he can download the files no problem and convert them for the Roku. So whichever is easiest for you!

But I've been watching them (until I tripped and accidentally bought it on iTunes a couple of days ago) and they're perfectly watchable, just not the crystal clarity that we've come to expect from TV in this time of HD.

I watch 1940's B-movies off YouTube. We're cool.
sovay: (Renfield)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-06 03:41 am (UTC)(link)
Excellent! I'll try the website first and send you the link, and if that doesn't work for some reason, I'll give Dropbox a try.

I appreciate this so much.
sovay: (I Claudius)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-06 12:05 am (UTC)(link)
2x04, "Meat", while it contains some upsetting content (which I can elaborate on if you need me to) is one of the best team episodes in the season

I have really idiosyncratic parameters for upsetting, so I'm curious what you mean?
sovay: (Morell: quizzical)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-06 01:09 am (UTC)(link)
but it is probably one of those things that's going to trip some people's squick threshold.

It is an objectively upsetting premise, yeah.
sovay: (Haruspex: Autumn War)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-05-06 04:14 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, it's one of those things that is obviously hard to watch for anyone, but some people nope out really hard on animal harm, so I wanted to let you know.

It is thoughtful of you. I have almost no blanket nope-outs; I do, like most people, have a category of "I really don't want that in my head," which tends to invoke more strongly for images than for text, and I have a couple of things which interact badly with trauma. Very few of them fall within parameters of standard content warnings, however, and there's the complicating factor that I am often not upset by things that other people often find upsetting, and I usually find that out by recommending a book or a movie to someone who is then upset by it, which is just great.
yalumesse: (Default)

[personal profile] yalumesse 2020-05-05 09:13 pm (UTC)(link)
It's a fantastic arc, no doubt.
trobadora: (Art Trek - Michelangelo by mrs_spock)

[personal profile] trobadora 2020-05-05 09:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Those were such excellent episodes!

just how much I love "learning to live with the terrible thing" as a narrative trope

Me too! Except when the terrible thing is something that takes away my main reason for being interested, I guess - that's me with Q. I agree with you in theory that leaving him human would have made for a great story, but I loved Q as a Q and was mainly interested in the whole omnipotent being-interacting-with-humans aspect, so permanently human Q wouldn't have worked for me.
trobadora: (Art Trek - Michelangelo by mrs_spock)

[personal profile] trobadora 2020-05-06 08:45 am (UTC)(link)
It just occurred to me that another reason I'm not fully on board with human!Q is that I have a kneejerk "NO" reaction to turning non-humans human after too many instances where we're supposed to see that as a good thing, and ultimately better for them. (Because human is best! Ugh.) So maybe having it treated as a serious loss and akin to a disability would have worked for me after all!
trobadora: (Default)

[personal profile] trobadora 2020-05-08 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I can't think of anything either ,,.
booksarelife: Tilted photo of Peggy Carter's head, shoulders and torso, where she is wearing a navy dress with two red stripes across the middle (Default)

[personal profile] booksarelife 2020-05-06 04:21 am (UTC)(link)
At some point I’m actually going to write that prompt of yours from IdProQuo about career ending injuries and Agent Carter (because apparently I want to spend a whole lot of time crawling around in Jack Thompson’s head😄)
booksarelife: Tilted photo of Peggy Carter's head, shoulders and torso, where she is wearing a navy dress with two red stripes across the middle (Default)

[personal profile] booksarelife 2020-05-06 04:43 am (UTC)(link)
Once school is over and my brain has recovered a bit I’ll definitely try because I want to (and I actually have a start to a fic like that, but I’ll probably do a completely new setup)
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-05-06 02:37 pm (UTC)(link)
....ooh yeah Jack's a perfect fit for that. I love post-show fic about Jack being really fucked up from being shot and having to learn how to depend on his boyfriend and girlfriend other people and unwillingly drop his obnoxious and Golden Boy personas. (Just in case you wanted to know if there was someone else who would happily read that!)
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-05-06 02:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I still remember very vividly one of the first times I really got hit with this feeling as a child, back in the '80s, watching that one Star Trek episode in which Q becomes temporarily depowered and then gets his powers back by the end of the episode. I can't even tell you how profoundly I did not want that ending; the story I wanted was the story of being a god, thinking of other beings as disposable, and then losing it all, becoming one of them, and having to learn to live with that.

OHMYGOD SOMEONE ELSE WHO ALSO WANTED THIS

They did it with Barclay at one point too -- he becomes wired up to this supercomputer or whatever, and he's almost like an AI, and do they keep going with this fascinating blend of terribly socialized human/extremely advanced brain? No, because it's episodic TV so it was reset at the end of the episode.

I really, really wanted depowered Q joining the crew. In fact that might have been one of my first urges towards transformative fic, heh.
lokifan: black Converse against a black background (Default)

[personal profile] lokifan 2020-05-18 02:26 pm (UTC)(link)
This is such good meta! I have no thoughts about it really but it's great.