sholio: (Books)
Sholio ([personal profile] sholio) wrote2019-04-15 05:06 pm

Vlad Taltos

Speaking as someone who was an utterly voracious reader as a kid, it's pretty rare for me to run into a fairly well-known fantasy series from the 80s that a) I've never read, and b) still holds up really well today. The Taltos books by Steven Brust are that. I had kind of vaguely heard of them, think I might have tried to read one of the later ones about 20 years ago and bounced off it, but that was all I knew until I borrowed the first one, Jhereg, from [personal profile] rachelmanija when I visited her at the end of March to read on the plane. I devoured it. I wanted more. I just got done with book 4, Taltos, today. And there are so many more of them to read! They're great! I love everybody in this (weird, jhereg-and-assassin-filled) bar.

Based on what I knew about the series, I was expecting "snarky asshole loner hero"; what I was not expecting was a snarky asshole who claims to be a loner while absolutely tripping over himself at every turn to do everything he can for his friends, right up to dying for them (repeatedly). And his friends are just that loyal to him, too. The narrative voice is delightful -- it's very contemporary urban fantasy; the books themselves are a sort of weirdo SFF/high-fantasy/urban-fantasy mashup. The worldbuilding is strange and original and fun. And (not at all a given in a 1980s fantasy series) the books do great with women, both in the way that individual female characters are written, and the worldbuilding in which it is perfectly unremarkable to encounter female mooks, guards, businesspeople, farmers, ship captains, and the like.

Spoilery comments on individual books follow.


JHEREG - Had me at hello and never let up. I loved the world and the characters; I loved the twisty heist-style plot; I loved that the entire plot revolves around a group of people with conflicting loyalties who all care about each other and are all trying their best to resolve a seemingly unresolvable conflict of duty without hurting each other. I really love that Vlad actually feels plausible as both a decent person and an assassin/mob boss (at least, he does to me), and I TOTALLY fell for the fakeout on Morrolan's death, though I guessed ahead of time the loophole that they found with Aliera's sword and soul.

YENDI - I wasn't quite as into the plot of this book as I might otherwise have been because I already knew about Vlad and Cawti breaking up (see below) and therefore wasn't really feeling the romance, but all the things I liked about the previous book were also great here: twisty plot, friendship/loyalty, more details on the series' weirdo worldbuilding. I love how Vlad will just drop casual comments like "It'd be nice if we had a real sky instead of this glowing orange-red thing" that leave you going "wait, what?" I also really love how both the Dragaerans and Easterners think of themselves as human and the other group as not, and how we still don't have any idea what is actually going on with the two groups. Is this far-future sci-fi in which both groups are the descendants of long-ago colonists who were experimented on, or a purely magic world, or some hybrid of the two? The fact that the Easterners think of the Dragaerans as elves/faeries is fascinating and also clearly not the whole story either. I think the only thing we reasonably know for sure (so far) is that they're probably both derived from the same base population, even if they refuse to admit it.

TECKLA - I was fortunately warned ahead of time that this book is pretty dark and Vlad and Cawti break up, because I had asked Rachel if this series had any "jump the shark"/"stop reading here" points and she told me about it. So going into it knowing this book was going to be darker than the preceding ones, I ended up really loving it a lot. I love, especially, that Vlad isn't put in the right simply by virtue of being the protagonist and viewpoint character, and that the revolutionaries were shown to both have a good case and a decent chance of pulling off what they wanted to pull off, even though Vlad's cynicism also makes sense for him as a character. I also really enjoyed the book deepening the worldbuilding by dealing with serfs and farmers in their society, the question of "who grows the food in fantasyland" being central to this book. It wasn't a particularly happy book, but it was a really good one and I appreciated that Vlad didn't end up sailing entirely over the moral event horizon, which I was kind of worried about for awhile there. Also, using Vlad's laundry list as a framing device for the book is brilliant.

TALTOS - That was SO GOOD and is probably my favorite book in the series so far. Vlad and Morrolan bickering their way through the afterlife! Baby Loiosh calling Vlad "Mama!" The wonderful weirdness of the Paths of the Dead! Vlad insisting that he could NEVER EVER be friends with Dragaerans, never, nope, not gonna happen, while nearly getting himself killed trying to save Morrolan and Aliera ... I gotta say this book makes an excellent case for why the two Dragon cousins are so completely ride-or-die for Vlad in the first three books.

I was a little puzzled by the timeline on these books because I think Aliera mentions in JHEREG that she's only had Pathfinder for a few months, but this is the book in which she gets Pathfinder (that's Kieron's sword, right?) and it feels, character- and plotwise, like a lot more than a few months have elapsed between this and JHEREG. That being said, the task of keeping these books' timeline straight over decades must be something else, so a few continuity errors are bound to slip through, and I might be misremembering/misinterpreting anyway; I don't think I would have even noticed if I hadn't just read JHEREG a couple of weeks ago.

Anyway, I am head over heels for this series right now and will be running off to start reading PHOENIX shortly.
redrikki: Orange cat, year of the cat (Default)

[personal profile] redrikki 2019-04-16 01:28 am (UTC)(link)
I really need to re-read this and read the latest. Thanks for reminding me how much I enjoyed it.
senmut: modern style black canary on right in front of modern style deathstroke (Default)

[personal profile] senmut 2019-04-16 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
So... Brust wrote this series ALL OUT OF ORDER.

I am one who does recommend the published order, but I'll list the (current) chronological order here:

Chronological order of novels:

Jhereg, prologue (1983)
Taltos (1988)
Dragon, main chapters (1998)
Yendi (1984)
Dragon, interludes (1998)
Tiassa, section 1 (2011)
Jhereg, main chapters (1983)
Teckla (1987)
Phoenix (1990)
Jhegaala (2008)
Athyra (1993)
Orca (1996)
Issola (2001)
Dzur (2006)
Tiassa, section 2 (2011)
Iorich (2010)
Tiassa, section 3 (2011)
Vallista (2017)
Hawk (2014)

See? WAY OUT OF ORDER.
alchimie: (Default)

[personal profile] alchimie 2019-04-22 09:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I do think the published order works best because Brust improved so much as a writer over time -- I tried a reread in chronological order and got mental whiplash.
sheron: RAF bi-plane doodle (Johns) (Default)

[personal profile] sheron 2019-04-16 01:47 am (UTC)(link)
Sounds awesome. Do you think it's my speed?

(I don't like things that are too "out there" in scifi.)
sheron: RAF bi-plane doodle (Johns) (Default)

[personal profile] sheron 2019-04-16 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
awesome! *adds to list*
yhlee: German rapier (mostly the hilt) (rapier)

[personal profile] yhlee 2019-04-16 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
Joe and I really enjoyed these books, uh, 15 years ago. So needless to say we are WAY out of date and I'm too intimidated to try to pick back up considering the amount of rereading I'd have to do, but I remember them being a lot of fun and am glad you're enjoying them!
ambyr: a dark-winged man standing in a doorway over water; his reflection has white wings (watercolor by Stephanie Pui-Mun Law) (Default)

[personal profile] ambyr 2019-04-16 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
It's so much fun to watch you go through this for the first time.

(I will say that [spoiler] [spoiler] [spoiler] -- actually, no I won't. You'll get there when you get there!)
cornerofmadness: (Default)

[personal profile] cornerofmadness 2019-04-16 02:32 am (UTC)(link)
Boy I haven't thought of those since the 80s. I wonder if I still have mine
cornerofmadness: (Default)

[personal profile] cornerofmadness 2019-04-16 02:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I barely remember them so it would almost be like reading new
krait: a sea snake (krait) swimming (Default)

[personal profile] krait 2019-04-16 02:50 am (UTC)(link)
TALTOS!!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS MY #1 "WHY IS THERE NO FANDOM!?" SERIES AND I HAVE BEEN TRYING FOR AGES TO DRUM UP INTEREST IN IT SO I'D HAVE SOMEONE TO TALK TO!

I am SO SO GLAD that you have discovered it and are enjoying it thus far!
Edited 2019-04-16 02:53 (UTC)
krait: a sea snake (krait) swimming (Default)

[personal profile] krait 2019-04-16 12:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Hurrah! I liked Phoenix. :D

At this point I have to take breaks, because I'm waiting for the next book to come out, but I usually reread a few of the previous books when that does happen. (With Brust there's no point reading the books 'just before' the newest, because you never know where in the continuity you're going to land!)

If you want to switch tracks for a while, you can always pick up The Phoenix Guards instead, and read about Dragaera a thousand years before Vlad came along...
alchimie: (Default)

[personal profile] alchimie 2019-04-22 09:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I too have wondered for a long time why is there no fandom for this. They are so fantastic!
scioscribe: (Default)

[personal profile] scioscribe 2019-04-16 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
I've heard of this multiple times, but had never quite tipped over into picking the series up, but now I want to so badly.

This isn't even the first time I've been mildly turned off by a series thinking it would be all about "adventures of one badass" when actually it's an ensemble and I'd love it. So this elaboration is hugely appreciated.
rachelmanija: (Default)

[personal profile] rachelmanija 2019-04-16 03:30 am (UTC)(link)
Oh you should read it. It would definitely be up your alley. Basically all the characters are magnificent assholes, there's tons of witty dialogue, AND they're all in different genres like private eye, noir, heist, western, etc.
cofax7: climbing on an abbey wall  (Default)

[personal profile] cofax7 2019-04-16 05:41 am (UTC)(link)
Dont' forget the Dumas pastiches! Those are super fun.
rachelmanija: (Default)

[personal profile] rachelmanija 2019-04-16 07:41 am (UTC)(link)
Oh no! That book is completely not typical. I didn't even get past the first page, and I made at least three tries.
neonhummingbird: (leverage hardison seriously?)

[personal profile] neonhummingbird 2019-04-16 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
I was just going to say this! I love the original books, but my deepest passion is reserved for The Phoenix Guards and 500 Years After. I just sit and giggle my way maniacally through them.
rachelmanija: (Default)

[personal profile] rachelmanija 2019-04-16 07:45 am (UTC)(link)
Re: Teckla: I also did really like the grappling with all the issues you mention, and also the unusual one of whether it's possible to have a revolution in a world where the social hierarchy is literally magically part of the structure of the world. "Can the Cycle be broken?" isn't just a question of likelihoods and the usual political forces, but may be more like "Can we erase the color red from the world?"

I had been extremely attached to Vlad/Cawti from book one, however, so the book made me very sad. It's awfully realistic about the disintegration of a relationship.
tieleen: (Default)

[personal profile] tieleen 2019-04-17 03:32 am (UTC)(link)
Randomly looking through DW for the first time in years and this rec grabbed me - it must be fate. Thank you for writing it! The series sounds like a lot of fun.
winter_elf: Sherlock Holmes (BBC) with orange soft focus (Default)

[personal profile] winter_elf 2019-04-17 07:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Huh. I have the first book or first two - and I think I started them and they just didn't grab me, so i put down and moved onto something else and never tried again. It's been long enough, maybe my tastes have changed, so I should try them again and see if I get into them this time.
alchimie: (Default)

[personal profile] alchimie 2019-04-22 09:20 pm (UTC)(link)
I would say also that the first book or two he is quite plainly writing about the adventures of his gaming group, so they are not really the shape or intent of the later books -- I love them, but they are the thing that they are, and the later books are more actually *books*, if that makes any sense.
theladysnarkydame: (Default)

[personal profile] theladysnarkydame 2019-04-20 04:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Interesting! I've always sort of skimmed over these books in the library, as if they were "generic fantasy novel" background art (couldn't really tell you why though).

But now I'll actually pick them up! I love finding an already established, long running series to start. :D
alchimie: (Default)

[personal profile] alchimie 2019-04-22 09:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I am so excited and delighted that you are reading these! They are some of my favourite fantasy ever published, and definitely the books I have reread the most in my life, although it has been a while since my last reread since I have them on paper and I am terrible about reading paper books. I first read them in 1990 having met Brust at a convention without knowing who he was -- a friend handed me Jhereg and was like "This is the book that guy we were talking to wrote," and I've loved them ever since.

They are just so much fun, and the characters so great, and they just keep being good as they go on -- and yes, so many excellent women! I appreciate that Brust is unafraid to write incredibly over-the-top super-powered characters with amazing magical swords etc and yet also to write about who grows the food and what happens when people in a marriage actually have different values.