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SGA 4x20
Aaaaah, the season's over! *snivel*
CANON APOCAFIC! :D :D :D
(Actually, it's totally a canon version of "Freedom's Just Another Word ..." -- only with a fix at the end!)
And I loved it, from the creepy, wonderfully SF feel of abandoned, sand-covered Atlantis, to the way they carried the season's plot threads forward to an apocalyptic finish, to all the death scenes, which actually made me cry a little bit (especially Sam's) and that almost never happens for me, to Sheppard's expressions and his interactions with holo-Rodney. Poor, poor Rodney, the last one of the original group, devoting his life to creating a timeline where it didn't happen. Between his comment to Lorne about things not going so well on Earth, and the way they scaled back their Atlantis operations, obviously Earth is having its own (unspecified, fill-in-your-own) problems. Technically, Jennifer was right that he ought to move on, in a sane rational universe where time travel isn't possible ... I suppose you could easily create that as an alternate fork in this timeline. Though obviously, it's a good thing he didn't -- and I was thinking during her goodbye scene that an obsession with something scientific is probably exactly what Rodney does need to get him through the loss of his friends and his wife/girlfriend/partner and Atlantis itself. Though maybe not a 25-year obsession ...
Apocafic for the win! :D
(Here's an interesting thing to mull over, though. We never found out how Rodney died, which is understandable since the hologram wouldn't know, but ... something that occurred to me at the end is that there is absolutely NOTHING in the episode to prove that it wasn't the real Rodney, in Ascended form, pretending to be a hologram, kind of like the one in "Pegasus Project". We never saw how Rodney died, we never saw what his "Eureka!" moment of inspiration actually was, or how he got to Atlantis after talking to Lorne, and we have no way of knowing that what he told Sheppard at the beginning about the hologram setup wasn't just to throw off Sheppard's curiosity. Maybe he came back to Atlantis just to use the Ascension machine again. We just don't know!)
Anyway, I really loved it and I was SO glad to be completely unspoiled -- I didn't know a thing about it, so everything was a surprise, and I got that pleasantly cool spine-shivery feeling from apocalypse-Atlantis that is one of the things I love the most about science fiction. (They really should have checked to see if their sun was within a few thousand years of going red dwarf when they first landed on the planet, though, wouldn't one think?) I don't mind the "fix" at the end because, well, it was very obvious as soon as the situation became clear that they would fix it. I wonder if this was planned as the series ender back when they didn't know if they'd be picked up for a fourth season, because it could have then tied up (rather sloppily) in the last act and capped off the series .... I'm glad they didn't go that way, though; as a series ender, it's a little too much like Unending, really.
I'm deliberately not thinking too much about the cliffhanger, because -- it's such an h/c scenario, but I expect there probably won't be anything like that (no doubt they'll dig themselves out at the start of next season and carry on) ... so, not so much of a cliffhanger, really, compared to the ones they've had in the past! I just don't want to get up my hopes for h/c and emotion-filled reunions and then be disappointed. But ... wonderful episode, I loved it -- a great finish for the season.
Off to see what other people thought.
CANON APOCAFIC! :D :D :D
(Actually, it's totally a canon version of "Freedom's Just Another Word ..." -- only with a fix at the end!)
And I loved it, from the creepy, wonderfully SF feel of abandoned, sand-covered Atlantis, to the way they carried the season's plot threads forward to an apocalyptic finish, to all the death scenes, which actually made me cry a little bit (especially Sam's) and that almost never happens for me, to Sheppard's expressions and his interactions with holo-Rodney. Poor, poor Rodney, the last one of the original group, devoting his life to creating a timeline where it didn't happen. Between his comment to Lorne about things not going so well on Earth, and the way they scaled back their Atlantis operations, obviously Earth is having its own (unspecified, fill-in-your-own) problems. Technically, Jennifer was right that he ought to move on, in a sane rational universe where time travel isn't possible ... I suppose you could easily create that as an alternate fork in this timeline. Though obviously, it's a good thing he didn't -- and I was thinking during her goodbye scene that an obsession with something scientific is probably exactly what Rodney does need to get him through the loss of his friends and his wife/girlfriend/partner and Atlantis itself. Though maybe not a 25-year obsession ...
Apocafic for the win! :D
(Here's an interesting thing to mull over, though. We never found out how Rodney died, which is understandable since the hologram wouldn't know, but ... something that occurred to me at the end is that there is absolutely NOTHING in the episode to prove that it wasn't the real Rodney, in Ascended form, pretending to be a hologram, kind of like the one in "Pegasus Project". We never saw how Rodney died, we never saw what his "Eureka!" moment of inspiration actually was, or how he got to Atlantis after talking to Lorne, and we have no way of knowing that what he told Sheppard at the beginning about the hologram setup wasn't just to throw off Sheppard's curiosity. Maybe he came back to Atlantis just to use the Ascension machine again. We just don't know!)
Anyway, I really loved it and I was SO glad to be completely unspoiled -- I didn't know a thing about it, so everything was a surprise, and I got that pleasantly cool spine-shivery feeling from apocalypse-Atlantis that is one of the things I love the most about science fiction. (They really should have checked to see if their sun was within a few thousand years of going red dwarf when they first landed on the planet, though, wouldn't one think?) I don't mind the "fix" at the end because, well, it was very obvious as soon as the situation became clear that they would fix it. I wonder if this was planned as the series ender back when they didn't know if they'd be picked up for a fourth season, because it could have then tied up (rather sloppily) in the last act and capped off the series .... I'm glad they didn't go that way, though; as a series ender, it's a little too much like Unending, really.
I'm deliberately not thinking too much about the cliffhanger, because -- it's such an h/c scenario, but I expect there probably won't be anything like that (no doubt they'll dig themselves out at the start of next season and carry on) ... so, not so much of a cliffhanger, really, compared to the ones they've had in the past! I just don't want to get up my hopes for h/c and emotion-filled reunions and then be disappointed. But ... wonderful episode, I loved it -- a great finish for the season.
Off to see what other people thought.
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Oh, man, Sam's death was the only one that actually brought a lump to my throat. Brave, brave Sam.
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Sam's death was the one that sent me over the emotional edge. I was doing fine up to that point! But it was just ... if a death scene can be gorgeous, hers really was.
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Hee, sorry, but I really just don't like that scenario. ;-)
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Now I want s5!
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OMG YOU ARE A GENIUS!
(SORRY CAPSLOCK IS STUCK ON AFTER THE AWESOMENESS THAT WAS THIS EP)
(I don't really buy the Ascended!Rodney but it still is a lovely idea. I think myself that he died on Atlantis. Because he would've been the only one to actually die there, and someone should have...)
(also it is totally "Freedom's..." - that beautiful shot when he's walking with Keller? Yes. Except for happi endo yays! My favorite kind of apocalypse!)
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One of the (many) things that's cool about this episode is that the title really refers to Rodney at least as much as to John (if not more so). Oh Rodney ... laboring to find a solution and save his friends, the outcome of which he'll never see! (Not actually all that different from his actions in Old Weir's alternate timeline, actually, except it was a much longer process here, and he had so much more to lose.)
I just did a bit of CAPSLOCK FLAILING at
(It is so totally "Freedom". Totally!)
SGA 4x20
In short! Loved this! Can't wait until Season 5 airs! Hope great fic is written over the next few months because I'll be starving for SGA by the time Season 5 arrives!
Love, max
Re: SGA 4x20
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The ascension idea has merit (perhaps in 48,000 years the Ancients have learned a little interference is a good thing).
I also am glad they didn't leave off with John emerging from stasis (or just going into stasis), or just going through the gate. I kept looking at the clock going "Wait... they're not actually going to end it there?" It seems to me that the cliffhangers for the odd-numbered seasons are a little more intense than the even-numbered.
I just don't want to get up my hopes for h/c and emotion-filled reunions and then be disappointed.
But... but... isn't that what fanfic is for? (And if I thought I could stretch it out for 40,000 words I'd do it for Big Bang... alas, I cannot.) It could've been a more intense cliffhanger, but I like the setup too. Maybe Rodney can at least get a splinter or something. An infected splinter.
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LOL, yeah, me too! For awhile, I really thought the cliffhanger was going to be John stepping back into the gate, to an unknown reception in the past. I was delighted that we got to see what happened after he came back! It was all a little rushed-feeling at the end, but there was so much to pack in -- they hit the highlights, at least!
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I totally loved this ep! I love apocafic! In fact, I have one that is very WIP (and has been for over a year now) that is apocafic and has a similar theme to The Last Man, but I think it's different enough to keep on with it (especially if I mention in a A/N that it was started way back before or when Season 3 was being shown!).
My fav bits were Ronon and Todd's interaction (the bit with the sword/knife after dispatching the baddies made me chuckle), Sam's noble death, holo-Rodney and John's banter in amongst all the angst, the bit were Rodney is talking about him and Sam fixing the ship and says something like 'I think Zelenka was there but I forget' (and the way the scene shows Radek only just in shot, which fits Rodney's memory!) and the banter about old-Rodney's hair (oh John, you are sooo mean to McKay! LOL!).
I also liked Rodney/Jennifer - in worked in this situation. Whether they pick it up in this timeline or not I don't know; I'm happy either way.
And the ending? My first reaction was 'no, you can't leave it there' and then I thought, well I know they're not dead (well, Ronon, Rodney, John and Lorne at least) and so it'll all work out okay. Still, I'm really hoping that the new season is starting in July like it seems it is going to and that it is online for me to watch. Also hope it doesn't have a stupid 3 month break, 'cos that damaged the rating for Season 3.
Oh, and from what Joe Mallozzi has said in the past, this was written as a 'to be continued' even when they didn't know if there was another season or not. He said if the series had been cancelled they'd have found a way to tie up the loose ends (like a film) for us. There was never any intention of it being the last SGA we ever saw. At least, that's what he said.
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This cliffhanger is really not much compared to last season's, when the whole city was about to be destroyed and I really had NO idea how they were going to get out of it. In this case, the "get out of it" is fairly obvious; I can hardly wait to see it, though!
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And it hadn't even crossed my mind that Rodney might have Ascended!! But you're right! Of course he could have...! I thought that he might have gotten killed or maybe even suicided, back on Atlantis... he says Lorne let him through, but my thought was that maybe it was so sneakily done that he couldn't really let anyone know he was there, or come back, and... so he died there. Somehow. But what if he didn't just die, but Ascend, and then he waited around for 48 000 years for John to show up, and... *flails*
Wow. That's an awesome thought, and all the more awesome for being plausible! Rodney would do that. He would.
Wow.
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Someone below me suggested yet another possibility, that Rodney was in stasis and somehow had linked his consciousness into the computer. I don't know why it's so compelling (to me) to rewrite the episode so that he was "really" there with John! And yet it is.
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There was just so much pretty in this episode! Seriously, it's one of the most beautifully shot of the entire series - just take something like the angle John comes through at when he enters the future Atlantis, and then the one when he comes back to his own timeline... I don't think I've seen either of those angles before, and they both helped with the feeling of it being very real and immediate. The colors and Rodney's voice-overs and the music...! Screencaps can only capture a fraction of it - but I'm making up for that with sheer quantity. *g*
Oh, Rodney in stasis! That's another cool idea! I can totally see why that would be so compelling, because - then he didn't just program a computer and hope for the best. He gave up the years he had left and everything else to risk ending up totally alone in the ridiculously far future just to see John again. (Well. And to save them all from the horribly FUBAR timeline.)
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One itty bitty peev - I thought Rodney looked a little bit too old for a 65 year old (all that sunscreen didn't help apparently), but that 's the only thing. Nothing but squee for this episode.
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I won't go there though!
I wanted see John set free from stasis, at the condition of the city and holo!Rodney guiding him back to the gate. However the premise was awesome as was the somber mood. Also I loved the red lighting of the entire thing.
My only quibble as upon replay, that it wasn't John's death or Ronon's or millions of deaths but that of Keller to spur Rodney to stop everything? *scratches head* over that, but I won't complain too loudly.
This could have been a very horribly done episode and it wasn't..it was full of character moments and devotion. It really set the tone for season 5 and that ending is worhty of so much fic!
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... and then she died. I don't think it was her death specifically so much as having gotten through losing his friends, losing Atlantis, starting to set up a new life on Earth and put it behind him ... and then that blows up in his face, too.
My brain breaks when I try to think about the timeline too much, because if Rodney had *already* set up the hologram in John's past (I mean, our future, but still the past for John), then there never *was* a timeline when John didn't come back in time, so the hologram shouldn't have been necessary and ... *brain breaks* Yeah. Trying not to think about it! But great episode anyway!
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I tend to think that Jennifer's death was the straw that broke the camel's back as it were. She had become his anchor...the one good thing that come out of the whole mess. Without that, I think he could have come to terms everything that happened. It was her death that made him want to change the timeline. However, it says something that when he thought of that the first person he thought of was John.
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My first thought here is that John was already lost in time, as it were, so he was the means to fix things -- all Rodney had to do was figure out how to get him back. But you know, that's not entirely true, because the *mechanism* for fixing things that Rodney had come up with would work with anybody. He could even put himself in stasis 'till a suitable solar flare came along, send himself back in time and prevent Carson's death or Teyla's kidnapping. It is interesting that John's disappearance was what he came up with, as the moment when everything went hopelessly wrong.
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(Anonymous) 2008-03-08 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
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Anyway, I find this cliffhanger very scary actually because it was obviously going to be the case of Rodney's brilliant plan having unintended consequences and the entire team dying in a boobytrap explosion seems like an only too real way for things to go. You know, for a future even darker than the one Rodney lived through. (Which deserves it's own exclamation mark because he survived losing every one of them, losing Atlantis, and he basically gave up his future. Jeez.)
I would like to see them discuss the things that John saw in the future a bit more with the present McKay & Carter, & Ronon...they glossed over that, which is too bad.
I think your idea of an ascended rodney is very cool...I believe there's definetly some sort of trick still in there, or if there isn't there should be! *g*
Anyway, it was one of the most tense episodes of SGA ever. I was unspoiled and it was so cool. There's ample time for h/c fic to get written even without the cliffhanger ending.
And heh, I am now picturing Rodney from "Freedom's..." devising a plan to get John back.
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Also Keller/McKay made sense to me because they were literally the last people alive who could even begin to understand each other. I don't think it means that they'll develop a relationship in the present day Atlantis and Sheppard does suggest as much in his warning to holo!Rodney. (who had hair!)
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Also Keller/McKay made sense to me because they were literally the last people alive who could even begin to understand each other.
That's exactly how I saw it, and, like I was saying in a comment above, that's why I think her death was the final straw that pushed him over the edge and made him devote his life to finding a way to fix this (at least for one version of him). She might not have been one of the people on Atlantis he was closest to, originally, but she understood. She'd gone through it with him; he could talk to her about it. Without her, he was left to carry it alone.
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I love that essentially the universe was rewritten because Dr. Rodney McKay didn't like the first version. Scary stuff.
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Oh man, I hadn't even thought about that! I can kinda see John having that thought as the building caves in -- he came back to save them, only to get them all killed ... wow. Poor John!
Sam's death was the one that hit me hardest, I think. It was just such a glorious death -- which is a horrible thing to say, but the only other death on this show that has really hit me like that was Grodin's. I love seeing people go down in a heroic blaze of glory, especially if they didn't really go down ...
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Did anyone else think it was hugely mean that when Rodney asked whether the future him had hair, John said no? OK, he'd called him a genius when he first came through the wormhole, but I thought that was really harsh!
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I also thought it was like Freedom, in many ways. And there was time-travel! Happiness :-)
I loved abandoned Atlantis - the way the camera moved through silent halls reminded me of the underwater footage of the Titanic. Heartbreaking. I loved everyone's stories - SAM! Samsamsamsamsam, oh, Sam, she was so awesome in this episode - not giving up, fighting for a ship, being a damn good commander, and everything falling apart once she was gone. And by god I am waiting for someone to write that SG-1 fic of the team's reactions to her death, back on Earth.
Ronon and Todd - !!! Loved their expressions just before they died, their mutual agreement. And again, I learned something new about the Wraith: apparently, they can be self-sacrificing, if the cause requires. And I'm thinking about the rational, smart Wraith here, not the drones.
Rodney was good here, both as hologram and flashback. And funny! The Zelenka line, his splinter. And I loved Lorne. In my mind, he's built an entire life back on Earth, and even if life there isn't perfect, he has a wife and kids and grandkids, and when he gives Rodney the go he's actually risking all of that, and it's a huge sacrifice but he decides to make it.
Sam's skepticism when John comes back is a bit overdone. After all, she has been through time-traveling experiences herself. More than once. But I'm not letting the details bother me.
Mmm, what else? I dunno. Woolsey's kind of an ass, I guess, as are the SGC and IOA, not to mention ungrateful. Earth's ass was saved be aliens more than once, and now they're abandoning Pegasus. But I guess humans will not learn.
All in all: a great, fun ending to the first season I've watched "live". I can't believe it's a whole six months till the sequel.
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And I can understand Sam's skepticism, because she's got a whole city to be responsible for, and she knows they're up against an enemy who can create clones and mind-control them. (Alt-Sam was a whole WORLD of awesome, though, wasn't she?)
It was a great way to end the season. I wasn't disappointed, and spoiler-free is definitely better! (Even knowing that, though, I've decided that there is NO WAY I'm going to make it all summer without finding out the major spoilers that are floating around ... I managed to stay mostly unspoiled 'til the end of the season, but I know I won't make it until the new season airs.)
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What I liked about it is that John knows all his friends' sacrifices and I doubt he'd tell tehm the extent of it but I think it's something that he'd keep in his mind and treasure them a little more.
Michael oh Michael - what an evil bastard! AWw, I loved that! :)
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This episode provides a lot of fan fic ideas. Gah. I had three within two hours of watching it, heh.
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hmm... Yea, I would have liked more info on how McKay got to Atlantis, and John's run to the gate. I think they could have spent more time on this instead of having John get back before the end of the episode. I wasn't minding the John and Rodney show, but I think TPTB was trying to limit that. Oh well.
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I loved the episode, but I don't believe that Rodney would have survived the 48,000 years in stasis--the city had completely powered down, and they had to reach the cache to be able to turn on John's stasis. And I'll have to rewatch, because if the city had no power, then what was with the lights coming and turning off as John passed through the hallways? I could be wrong! The ascended!rodney what-if is a very very seductive idea, and actually makes more sense power wise than the wtf? moment when Rodney 'comes alive' when there's no power.
I liked it, liked the way that they handled it, and Hewlett/Flanigan did a fabulous job!
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My thought is that maybe somehow Rodney was able merge himself into Atlantis' computers...or at least his least his mind.(most likely at the cost of his own life) That was why after a few minutes HoloRodney kept saying "we" did this or we did that. ) And that was why he was so emotional when he was telling the tales - it wasn't just information he was programed to know - they were actual memories.
I was not as thrilled about the episode as some people, but I enjoyed it. I liked how Sam and Ronon went out fighting (I would have liked to have seen more of Teyla, but I know why we didn't see as much of that as I would have liked). I loved the imagery of the scene with Michael and the Wraith Queen's head.
And given the bleak outlook and the lost of all his friends I could see Rodney giving up. True he is not one to normally give up, but given the particular set of circumstances in the that timeline I could see it happening. Rodney is just not the sort to "fight city hall" as it were. And that what was needed here. As far as he was concerned Woolsey and the IOA had made up their minds and there was nothing he could do to change them.
And then becoming obsessed with this project. That was also something I could really see happening. And Jennifer could as well...which was why she tried to make Rodney promise not to let that happen.
The best part was the last few minutes. Rodney's expression when he realized just what was going on "It's a countdown..." and then everything going straight to hell. I am looking forward to what happens in Season Five.
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CANON APOCAFIC! :D :D :D OMG SO TRUE (hehehe)! That same thought kept running through my brain a-la luminous times-square message thingy :D
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You know, Shipper, sometimes I just want to crack you brain open and see what's in there. This is an interesting twist. It would be typical of Rodney, finding a way to help Sheppard. And no, you will not inspire any more plot bunnies, my are brewing like, well, rabbits. So no, nope, this will not inspire another fic . . . ah darn, between you and Grey, I'll never get rid of those rabbits!
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Huh. You're right. I'm so pleased with that.
I love the name of this episode, too. John's The Last Man in his timeline, while in Rodney's timeline, he's The Last Man who hadn't given up on Atlantis.
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I like your Ascended idea. What if...Rodney makes it to Atlantis with his calculations and his preparations, gets dosed with the Ascension machine, uses his genius-squared time to polish up his solution and put it into place, then Ascends? That way, he can hang around if his Hail Mary doesn't work and help John, otherwise he doesn't break the interference rule and can keep an eye on the rest of his timeline. Hell, maybe he can even scoop up Atlantis and move it somewhere else before it's destroyed. Just a thought...