sholio | SGA 5x04

I don't think my levels of squee were quite as high as yours. Sure I appreciate a team ep with extra added Lorne, Zelenka and Chuck, and I love AU eps, but it seemed a little flat. I suppose I was disappointed that they didn't get to see more of the alternate realities, meet their alternate selves, alternate Atlantises (Atlanti?).

Having said that:

Rodney - and the baby! Aww. Somewhat like Woolsey's reaction "Oh look at the baby, wow!.... Oh crap, now what do I do? Help!". Also, DH - you must have worked SO hard at this ep. So much technobabble!

Teyla - season 5, you're saving Teyla from being stuck as the Athosian who said "my people" way too much, and whose storylines were all to so with the stupid Wraith gene. I love that Major Marks taught her the Daedalus systems (and that Ronon couldn't be bothered to learn) and how utterly competent she is, even to the point of knowing something Rodney didn't. Ha! My hopes for season 5 was some good Teyla stuff - it's not disappointed yet.

John - oh yay! The opening and closing discussions about the baby were great, and there was so much snark! Plus, he DID get some interaction with his alternate self. Loved him singing his own praises - it may not be anywhere near the size and health of Rodney's, but the man's ego ain't gonna die any time soon.

Ronon - behind a Daedalus console. Cool and wrong at the same time. And he had a genuine Chewie moment! I did think it odd that he heard noises, went to investigate, had his gun out, but not aimed as he opened that door. Really didn't seem right. Ronon's usually the first to be up and aiming.

The aliens. Cool ship. Fun space fight - if a little long. The aliens themselves? Oh dear. Not a good first impression if they're going to return (and if anyone confirms or denies this to me outside of Mallozzi's blog, I will not be happy!).They looked like robots mixed with Cardassians, with the animalic roaring that the Wraith do, which BUGS me. Still, if they are going to be around, it'd be interesting to know who they are, where they came from, what they want, and if they're going to confound my first impressions I'll be happy. I can't help thinking they might find a way to jump realities and come after our guys, unless they exist in "our" own. We'll see.

So, IMHO - a good episode, but not going into my top ten.

Not a good first impression if they're going to return (and if anyone confirms or denies this to me outside of Mallozzi's blog, I will not be happy!).

Yeah, I agree -- I fully expect we'll see them back, and have no clue beyond random speculation that we WILL see they back, but they don't give me great hopes for a fun and interesting new enemy. (On the other hand, the Replicators had all kinds of potential as an enemy, and I found the whole idea of the Wraith -- at least past the first episode -- pretty dull, but the Wraith have turned out to be quite interesting, at least IMHO, while the Replicators fizzled. So who can say.)

I did think it odd that he heard noises, went to investigate, had his gun out, but not aimed as he opened that door. Really didn't seem right. Ronon's usually the first to be up and aiming.

He also just blundered blindly into that ambush last episode. Oh, Ronon. XD I do think it's one of those situations, like Elizabeth and her non-existent diplomacy skills, or Teyla with her uber-woodcraft building a fairly obvious fire, at night, while being pursued by enemies -- the writers really do try to make him badass but they don't cover all the possibilities.

On the other hand, I am very easily distracted by shiny. And this episode was very shiny!

Yes, they seem to be struggling with the interesting enemy. SG-1 did so well with the Goa'uld (especially Ba'al) the original replicators, but not with the Ori. SGA - well the Wraith can interesting (Todd, various Wraith worshippers), the Replicators seem to have disappeared, Kolya is dead (small sob) and these guys are... Bulky Borg?

Just as well the good guys are so much fun (and not always good!).

Maybe Specialist Dex is getting old, or living on Atlantis is making him soft! Maybe his surprise birthday cake has somehow addled his instincts!

Still, yes, I prefer to look at the good stuff than concentrate on the bad. Teamy goodness and snark. I can never dislike that.

PS - It's totally your fault that I can't wait for disc 3 of LOM to arrive. Damn but that show is good, even if the misogyny of the era makes me want to hit them all! Thanks for introducing me to one of my own country's most treasured exports.

PS - It's totally your fault that I can't wait for disc 3 of LOM to arrive. Damn but that show is good, even if the misogyny of the era makes me want to hit them all.

*laughs* Er, oops! But ... it is good, isn't it? I love how they don't portray the past through a rosy glow of nostalgia -- it's sexist, racist, and violent, and you can't really love the characters without also being deeply skeeved by their outlook on life. Which is, I imagine, the point!

I loved this episode! And I don't remember the quote and I'm too tired to find it, but didn't DH say something about this being the season of people in bed? :D

*g* He did say something about people spending a lot of time in the infirmary, didn't he? So true! I will not complain if this trend continues. XD

Yes, yes, yes! I'm kind of incoherent right now, because I spend the last - oh, I don't know, doesn't matter, but I posted my episode reaction right now and so did you and I have so much love for this episode! (See. Incoherent!)

RODNEY AND BABY! After all, we've already seen John with the baby. Now we NEED Ronon and baby. Need, need, need. Erm. Yes. Slightly obsessed with that but - it's so cute!

Am so loving the teaminess of this season! Team stuck together in different realities, relying on each other to get back, and they all believe in Rodney, but they need all of them. Teyla's technical knowledge make me squeak, too! So happy. ♥ And then Ronon and Teyla, and Ronon and John, and - ohh, Ronon calling the others for backup, because he knows his team will come save him! That's something he's had to relearn, I'm sure, after all those years alone...

Maybe I'm easy too, but I am so happy with our show. ♥ Our show and TEAM and they're genius dorks that fight back to back through dimensions!

This has been SUCH a teamy season! Though ... it's not like we haven't gotten team episodes in past seasons ... I think I'm just really enjoying how they're doing it, the way they're integrating Teyla's personal life and the team's little downtime moments into the whole tapestry of explosions and aliens, as they've been doing quite well since last season. And they've been doing really well at picking up some of the character relationships that were given short shrift last season (Teyla and Ronon, Rodney and Teyla). Obviously, it's not possible to feature every character relationship in every episode, but they've been doing an awfully good job of giving us those little bits and pieces this season, and I love it!

I have nothing but love for the way they've been writing team this season! It's so very rare that I feel a show getting better every season - usually my favorite shows hit their high point in season 4, for some reason - but they've started out so very strong...! I didn't love The Seed as much as I've loved the other eps, but The Seed did a great job with Woolsey, and with character worry and lots and lots of team interaction - and interacting with everyone, not just team-team... But then Broken Ties and now this? Everyone has stuff to do! Everyone cares about everyone else! Nobody except Teyla would ever manage to put this into words, and if she tried there'd be a lot of funny faces and RUN AWAY!, but. This is my team, and I love them, in all their snarky, stubborn, loyal, dorky, brilliant glory. ♥

I have nothing but love for the way they've been writing team this season! It's so very rare that I feel a show getting better every season - usually my favorite shows hit their high point in season 4, for some reason - but they've started out so very strong...

Such a relief that it's not just me ...! I've generally found that shows go downhill somewhere around season 4 or 5, though I'm honestly not sure how much of that is the *show* running out of steam, and how much is just me losing interest in watching it. And I don't have all that much of a sample to look at, because so few of my shows make it that long ...! "Buffy" definitely tanked in its last couple of seasons. I quit watching SG-1 in season 6, though I'd already started losing interest through seasons 4 & 5; in retrospect, I'm not sure how much of it was the show and how much was me, but a lot of the fandom felt, as I did, that the characters became more distant and less invested in each other as the show went on, unlike SGA where they keep reminding us of how close the characters are.

They're just such a wonderful bunch of social misfits. :) I've never fanned on a show this long or this hard ... well, except for "MacGyver" in my teens, but I was a teenager so I'm not sure if the normal rules apply. (Also, that was *definitely* a case of a show that went downhill as it aged.)

Hmm... I don't know if I've ever noticed the 4-5 season thing even when I've been mainlining a show, so I suspect it might be a combination of the show losing it's spark, and me losing interest. But Buffy - yeah. I definitely liked fifth season, but sixth? Um. The musical episode was good?

B5's fifth season wasn't as good as the previous for a lot of reasons, but it doesn't change the fact that it was worse than what had come before.
X-Files... oh, that's such a bitter break-up for so many people! I lost interest somewhere around season 4-5, and I really do think it was experiencing a noticeable drop in quality around then. (One of the main actors wanting to leave is generally not a good thing - see also SG-1!)

And MacGyver - I don't even want to think about what happened to that show! I loved it so much...! For years, I loved it. And then I think they must have stopped airing new episodes for a while, or something, because I never really watched the last seasons. (Or I could just be totally repressing the experience. *g*)

Right now I think SGA hasn't quite surpassed my Sentinel fanning - but only when it comes to time spent in one fandom. I've never been this creative in a fandom before, or this involved in the community. Of course, The Sentinel was my big teenage fandom (MacGyver I was actually watched in my pre-teens), and the internet was a totally different place back then, so it's difficult to compare. For example, I didn't actually have new episodes of the show to watch back then. Swedish TV aired the episodes about a six months or a year behind the US. So I lived on spoilers and quotes others shared, before finally getting to see what I had already imagined in great detail.

...and, wow did I ever get sidetracked! It's your LJ, it's dangerous! XD

Where was I? Wasn't I supposed to be talking about the team? I love the team! There we go. End of babble!

Edited 2008-08-02 20:39 (UTC)

Hee! You know you can babble in my journal anytime!

"MacGyver" became awful. And I watched every episode as it aired, knowing it was awful. So sad.

And some shows never even make it that long. I loved the first season of "Invisible Man" and fanned like a crazy fannish thing, then didn't like the second season all that much. "Forever Knight", feh -- THERE IS NO THIRD SEASON.

Right now I think SGA hasn't quite surpassed my Sentinel fanning - but only when it comes to time spent in one fandom.

Heh, I need to watch the rest of "Sentinel"! I've seen most of it, but in bits and pieces, here and there. It was always my sister's show; she had a huge crush on Garrett Maggert, but I never paid that much attention to it (the only episode I specifically remember from the show's original run was "Golden"). I started watching it on cable a few years ago, but never managed to catch all the episodes, let alone in anything resembling order. The first season's out on DVD, and I have it, but the last I checked, there wasn't any more to be had.

In fact, there are a lot of shows from that era I want to catch up on. I saw the first 2 or 3 seasons of Babylon 5, but then I went off to college and didn't have a TV. Same thing with Due South, ST:DS9 and a number of other shows that were airing at about the same time.

BABYLON 5!!!

...Umm. Just wanted to get that in there.

naye will probably jump in to corroborate. I didn't know you hadn't seen the whole thing - it's definitely worth rewatching. Still is almost unique in its storytelling, for being a complete and planned story, beginning to end; it's got its flaws, but when it comes to EPICs nothing tops it. (Avatar manages the same, but it's much shorter and had anime influence to draw on...) If I'm really pushed I'll probably still put B5 as my number one favorite TV show of all time.

Sentinel, on the other hand, is...umm...I was into it hardcore and I don't think I actually ever watched every episode. Partly because it was harder to get hold of back then and partly because, well...even when I was into it, it wasn't that good. ^^;

--Oh, I originally was popping in here to say that the 4th season slide isn't just illusion; a lot of shows go downhill after s4-5. ST:TNG definitely dipped in its last couple, X-files as mentioned, SG-1...(though SG-1 went on for so long that it actually went back up again in the last couple seasons, in my opinion, which is an interested phenomenon...)

SGA doesn't seem to be slumping yet...I wonder if it's partly because SGA sort of reinvents itself every season? Watching the whole thing all at once, the show has a drastically different mood/theme every season, keeps things on its toes?

Also - heee at the beautiful summary of what was going on with John, there:

"There are FEELINGS happening here!" *flees*

Oh, John. ♥

That's so totally what he appears to be thinking! "This is getting mushy. MUST RUN AWAY." Oh, John, John. You DORK.

:-)

My main reaction was, hey, this is a Science Fiction show? I really like Science Fiction! Neat! I don't think this is an episode I'll rewatch a dozen times - I don't think there was a lot of nuance - but that's perfectly fine.

I'm still having Teyla-as-mother issues, but there's 95% me. I love how she's growing in technical knowledge - like somehow over the past six months (when she wasn't busy getting kidnapped) stuff that had been floating around in her environment just went 'click'. Maybe she put in some effort into getting really proficient with written English and that's coming through? Anyway, I find it very believable, and very interesting, as I do Ronon's frustrations (I think I'd be with Ronon - buttons ARE NOT MY FRIENDS.)

- Helen

It was a wonderfully science-fictiony episode, wasn't it? And not really in the B-movie-homage way of "Seed".

They've given strong implications in past episodes that Teyla's pretty good with computer stuff, but this is the first time they've ever been overt about it. Which delighted me!

Oh, I thought this was a fantastic episode! I thought it was quite chilling when we came on that alternate team and they were all dead. I thought it was quite telling (of something) that the alternate team was all together, pretty much touching, when they died. What really are the chances that they'd die at the same time in the same location? *shivers*

I love techy Teyla. It so works for me that Teyla is going to learn anything and everything she can that will give her people and her team an advantage. And Ronon's more of a doer and banging on the controls just made me laugh.

I really loved that Lorne didn't wait on any confirmation that Team Sheppard was actually on the ghost Daedalus, he just took Radek and went.

All in all, it was such a good adventure, team story. I love, love, loved it!

I thought it was quite telling (of something) that the alternate team was all together, pretty much touching, when they died.

I know; I noticed that, too. Like I was commenting at someone else's journal this morning, it's hard for me to believe that they died of starvation - I just can't believe that they'd go down that easily. If worst came to worst, I think they'd abandon the Daedalus, give up all hope of getting back and take the jumper down to the planet. Rodney might have to be dragged away from the ship, but it's hard to believe John wouldn't have made them all leave rather than watching them slowly die. It makes more sense to me that they were killed by something in one of the realities that they came to -- radiation, enemies, something. But, whatever got them, they were all clustered together at the end, and I loved that.

Yes, they did tell us that the drive put out a lot of radiation. My own thought was that they all got a lethal dose of radiation. And while they will fight to the end (I loved when Lorne and Radek found the team floating in space in space suites) even team Sheppard is going to know when they've found the end and they'd want to be together. (Gah, I'm getting all weepy here thinking about it ;-)

>>"...and take the jumper down to the planet

Which would require, that their jumper was actually still in working order, something we don't know for sure, right?

But yes, I also think they didn't die of starvation, they just don't *look* that way. Dehydration, maybe, or knocked out by something and then frozen to death. John said the place was cold like a meat locker.

Somehow I get the impression, their death came to them on "soft feet", as if they were taken by surprise while unconscious.

But I actually like the fact that we don't know for sure what exactly killed them but still left them looking so uninjured and kind of peaceful, the apparently didn't have to fight violently for their life. Very mysterious.

Ah, stuff to explore in fanfiction... *G*

Definitely full of great team moments - and oh, Rodney dropped the baby! But at the end there, he gets to hold Torren and then kinda like, 'what now? Take him back'!!! Oh Rodney!! And John - that line about Rodney as a father being the scariest thing ever cracked me up - so much so I missed the 'feelings' line!! Shall have to go back and rewatch that bit!!! LOL!

I also loved how Rodney says he had to try and not think like himself and he figured Sheppard was about as far from that as he could - and John takes that as a compliment!! LOL! Oh boys!! *g*

And yes, the self-complimenting by John also cracked me up! Ego, much?!! *g*

Kinda intrigued by the new aliens...maybe not the best introduction to them, hopefully they will seem less borg-like when we meet them! I'm not sure why they reminded me of the borg as the lights on the forehead are about the only borg-like thing on them, but they did!!

The only thing that bugged me slightly (well, two things I guess) was how long they seemed unsure of what was happening. I mean, once they got confirmation that their Daedalus was in the Milky Way, then surely the first two things to come to mind would be time travel or AU, what with their previous experiences? Maybe they didn't want to jump to conclusions, seeing as there could have been other explanations I guess...or I could just put it down to a plot device! Or that I'd already been spoiled for the AU bit and if I hadn't it would have seemed just fine!!

And why did Sheppard tell his AU self that it was a long story? Surely it wouldn't have taken long to say 'we're from an AU'?!!

But those are very, very minor things and aren't going to spoil my squee!!!

Rodney-whump and baby!!! *goes off squeeing into the distance...*

It wasn't just you, I said OMG the Borg! as soon as the aliens attacked. With their blank faces and flashy-light implants, yeah...

And why did Sheppard tell his AU self that it was a long story? Surely it wouldn't have taken long to say 'we're from an AU'?!!

This is so true! I love how crazy their lives are. Presumably in all universes!

They made me think of the Borg, too! I really wish that they'd develop another human baddie for a change; the Genii situation in the first two seasons was really a lot of fun, and I'd love to see more development of Pegasus politics rather than throwing more aliens at us.

I just wish they'd introduce a baddie that didn't show up shooting stuff! Hostile, physically super-strong (how come every advanced race except the Asgard are stronger than humans? Why would a species with advanced tech care about physical strength?) aliens are so been-there-done-that.
...Er, not just SGA, this is a problem I have with most scifi TV. "Super soldiers" are the rage of every martial government/species on TV, but in reality we're going more toward automation, smart bombs and whatnot that take human lives out of the equation when planning offenses...

The funny thing is that several people keep asking Joe Mallozzi for really alien aliens and are going to be disappointed that these aliens are still very humaniod!! He just can't win, can he?!!! *g*

I did/do like the Genii and would welcome more human enemies like they were/are-sort-of-maybe (!), as well as aliens. I do hope this race turn out to be more than they appear at first sight...maybe what we saw was some form of soldier (like Anubis' super-soldiers) and the ones in charge are more complex? Or maybe these are more complex than they seemed?

It's hard to tell much from this ep really, as we are thrown into an existing battle with no explanation as to who they are, why they are doing this etc. If we had been thrown into a battle between Wraith or Replicators and Atlantis without any explanations, what would we have made of the aggressors? Would they have seemed like some sort of single-minded killing machines?

Hmm, I think I've gone off track here a bit, sorry!! And yes, I do agree that more Pegasus politics would be good to see.

Hee! I wasn't the only one, then!!! I hope they don't want to assimilate our heroes!

And John - that line about Rodney as a father being the scariest thing ever cracked me up - so much so I missed the 'feelings' line!!

Oh, no, he didn't actually say that; that's just my take on the look on his face and his immediate departure from the scene. *g* (Because, really, the only other explanation that makes sense for his obvious discomfort and fleeing is that he's jealous of Rodney holding the baby, which wouldn't make much sense.)

And why did Sheppard tell his AU self that it was a long story? Surely it wouldn't have taken long to say 'we're from an AU'?!!

*snort* I know. Especially since his alt-self almost certainly picked up on the fact that he was talking to "himself". And I agree about how long it took them to figure out the alt-reality thing -- I was going "Alternate reality or time loop!" as soon as the Daedalus showed up! *g*

Oh, no, he didn't actually say that; that's just my take on the look on his face and his immediate departure from the scene. *g* (Because, really, the only other explanation that makes sense for his obvious discomfort and fleeing is that he's jealous of Rodney holding the baby, which wouldn't make much sense.)

Doh! Sorry, I thought I'd missed something he'd said!! But yeah, definitely a retreat from those scary feelings things happening there!!!

*snort* I know. Especially since his alt-self almost certainly picked up on the fact that he was talking to "himself". And I agree about how long it took them to figure out the alt-reality thing -- I was going "Alternate reality or time loop!" as soon as the Daedalus showed up! *g*

Oh, I'm sure his Alt-self knew - after all, the first time they were in that reality Sheppard tried to contact Atlantis and sort of announced his presence on the Daedalus doing it!! And glad I'm not the only one who was wondering why it took so long for them to figure it out!! Oh well, I guess Alan McCullough didn't want to give it away too early...!!

I'm still squeeing over all the team stuff...the little bits as well, like Rodney scoffing about there being ghosts and then jumping when Ronon knocks something over/down and his snapped response to stop touching stuff!!!! LOL!

great review. The episode was great fun.

Thank you! :)

I loved the Flying Dutchman Daedalus, but felt awful about the dead Alt-Team. Oh, Alt-Rodney, you so should have been able to figure out the solution. :-(

But I loved Ronon telling Teyla that she couldn't worry about all the other Torrens in all the multi-verse.

John, oh, John. I'm not sure if you push Rodney to perform greater miracles or if you just sound like a screeching fishwife.

But, my Rodney got them home!!!! Yay, my Rodney!

And David + Babies = AWWWWWWW. :-)

The Flying Dutchman plot was great! I am a total sucker for that plot on any and all shows. And oh, poor alt-Team. I'm not really convinced that they actually starved to death; it's just hard to believe that our team would simply lay down and die like that. They'd (accidentally, of course!) blow the ship up before they'd give up. I prefer to think they were killed by some other reality's dangers (radiation, enemies, etc) before they were able to fix the drive. Obviously, I'm handwaving here. *g*

And, oh, Rodney and baby. So lovely.

In addition - if they really had starved, they would have looked different. So, yes, starvation is rather unlikely.

Oh, Alt-Rodney, you so should have been able to figure out the solution. :-(

You know, to be quite honest, I loved the fact that for once, one Rodney could not figure out what the solution was. Makes him more human, and the whole episode more realistic. That is not to say that I don't agree with you, I did feel bad for the other Rodney, but I thought it was quite the clever device to have one Rodney fail only to get the other to think differently.

Oh, I know. That was so poignant that Alt-Rodney did give our Rodney enough info that, eventually, our Rodney was able to figure out the solution in time. But the thought that in the multi-verse, there are Dead!Rodneys makes my heart hurt. :-(

(*I just may be a bit partial to Rodney*) *g*

(*I just may be a bit partial to Rodney*) *g*

You? No! I never would have guessed. ;o)

But I agree. The picture is every bit as heartbreaking as the drowned Rodney in season 1.

I really enjoyed it too. I love where they're taking Teyla, and now that I think of it, they started last year (that I noticed) with Tabula Rasa and Quarantine - showing her proficiency with technology. Last night I thought, "Duh. Of course Teyla would want to learn everything she can about everything." She adapts, and she's been around long enough to know that the Wraith won't be defeated with bantos rods.

The banter is back! Loved the opening (and pretty much everything else) with Sheppard and McKay. And I completely adored Teyla letting Rodney hold Torren. But more than that, I was ecstatic that Rodney wanted to. He's come so far. And I giggled at the fact Ronon found a gun (ok, a railgun) that he couldn't use very well.

Tons of fun.

I love Teyla's technical proficiency and the fact that they're actually developing it. There have been several episodes that showed or implied she's pretty good with technology, and now she's actually graduated to helping Rodney fix things -- I was so delighted to see that! And, yes, SQUEE for the return of the Sheppard/McKay banter! This episode was just full of generous helpings of good things.

This season is shaping up marvelously - such a fun ep! And oh, I love Alan McCullough's Teyla so very very much. He likes to have her actually DO stuff (much to Rodney's astonishment). And his Ronon's also very smart, which I also highly approve of (loved when Ronon was discussing AUs with Teyla, referring to what Rodney says about them - he actually listens!)

Easy sell, hee - for me it was the AUs. Even if it didn't do much with them, I just am so very very in love with the concept of the multiverse that I was bouncing and squeeing for half the ep about that alone.

Also, the 4th ep of every season apparently has to put Rodney in the infirmary. I am not complaining!

Also, the 4th ep of every season apparently has to put Rodney in the infirmary.

*snicker* They DO, don't they? And the 3rd ep of every season is a Ronon ep.

I honestly don't pay a whole lot of attention to which writer does which episode (except for a bit of squee when a Gero episode comes up because he focuses more on people than on explodey stuff); I tend to see them all as one big blended mass. So I hadn't specifically noticed that he gives good Teyla and Ronon, but I do approve! I'd love to see more of this rendition of them!

except for a bit of squee when a Gero episode comes up because he focuses more on people than on explodey stuff

I pay attention, because I've noticed a couple of things:

Alan McCullough writes great team episodes, and he doesn't write Ronon as the big dumb guy. I really think he writes Teyla better than anyone else (not saying much, but still.)

Joe Mallozzi may be a jerk, but he does write Ronon very well.

Martin Gero needs to give Hewlett a blowjob already and stop expressing his mancrush by writing episodes that are All McKay, All the Time. (Also, Martin? David Hewlett is NOT FAT. That stopped being funny a while ago.) There are three other people on Team AR-1--and Keller? Not one of them, kthxbai. Also, Gero is one of the worst offenders in terms of writing Ronon as the one-note, big guy who shoots stuff, and about ignoring Teyla completely. ("Quarantine" was the rare exception.)

Binder's not great, but he's tolerable most of the time. Cooper seems to have issues writing believable characters; the fact that he said with both Ford and Weir that "Well, the characters just didn't work out," should have been a hint: Writing--you're doing it wrong.

Thank you for the observations! I do have trouble connecting individual writers to their different writing styles, aside from having noticed that Gero loves writing Rodney and tends to like writing slice-of-life or small set-piece episodes as opposed to sprawling "blowing stuff up" episodes.

Admittedly, while I do recognize *why* people are frustrated with the writers' focus on Rodney and, as a writer and a person, I think there are a ton of very valid points that have been made (both regarding the actual writing on the show and the larger sociopolitical picture that it paints), as a fan, if they changed the name to The David Hewlett Show: The Further Adventures of Rodney McKay, I'd be there with bells on. I feel ungrateful complaining about getting exactly what I want out of the show, even though I think other people are totally justified in being unhappy with it (and pointing that out) and I wish that everybody was getting what they want out of it...

It's fascinating to see that I have an entirely different take on most of the writers! ...which I'm just mentioning here, and not getting into details of because I'm really not sure this is the time or place.(And it's not like personal likes and dislikes is something you can really debate). But since Brad Wright wasn't mentioned - in a nutshell, seeing Wright's name in the credits makes me squee in anticipation of wonderful, wonderful h/c. ♥

Just a brief passing note that I'm certainly not going to stop anyone from debating it here, if you're so inclined. This is not something that I'm really qualified to comment on (and my tone-deaf-ness in this area goes way back; I was always kind of an outlier in comics fandom because I generally didn't have the foggiest clue which artist or writer had written or drawn which issue of what; I just don't *retain* that stuff). But I find people's interpretation of the writers' styles interesting and thought-provoking.

But it's such a weird thing to debate! I love most of Gero's scripts, and I think the handful of episodes Cooper's written for SGA have been some of the best of the show. (He introduced Ronon in Runner, wrote Sateda, and then Doppelganger. He also came up with the character of Rodney McKay back on SG-1. So you see why I can't do anything but love him helplessly.) But if someone else doesn't like the Rodney-centric episodes, or doesn't care for the fact that Cooper makes executive decisions that I personally think were for the best... I can say what I think, but I'd never expect to change anyone else's mind on the subject! Because it's so highly subjective.

About retaining it - heh. When I started watching SGA last year, I made a list of the episode titles I'd seen in my journal. (Clarifying: paper journal! Which is where I was organizing all of my thesis stuff, too.) Then I thought a lot about which episodes I liked best, and why. And then I got a hold of a list of writers, and matched them to the episodes. And then I organized another list of episodes, this one by writer, and I kept adding to it as I watched more of the show.

Um. I can't really explain this behavior except that I was right in the middle of thesis writing, and organizing lists and looking at who had written what seemed like a sane thing to do at the time. *g* But that laid the groundwork for my opinions on the writers, and since then I've been able to memorize episodes by title & writer, in most cases!

(The lists were good, though! They told me that the people who'd written "Sanctuary" were never allowed to write anything else ever again, which increased my faith in the staff writers. XD)

Edited 2008-08-03 08:14 (UTC)

Wait ... Cooper wrote Doppelganger? Admittedly, I really don't pay a whole lot of attention to this kind of stuff (and your methodology cracks me up -- because I have *totally* been that anal about certain things, especially whole collections of character-related data from certain shows when I was a teen). But Doppelganger is probably one of my favorite episodes of any show EVER, so ... I really must give some love to any writer who wrote that. (And, uh, Tao of Rodney is one of my OTHER favorite episodes of any show ever. I AM SO EASY.)

I can recognize good writing, certainly. But as far as fannish love -- that's a whole separate thing for me, I think. And it's totally subjective. In fact, I think the things I love most as a fan can't be well written (well, can't be *that* well written) because the plot tropes I love the most just aren't really good writing choices. XD

Yep! The scripts that have been all Cooper (which he all directed himself, too!) are Runner, Sateda and Doppelganger. I LOVE COOPER. \o/

And Gero wrote Tao and M&MM and Miller's Crossing, soooooo~. Yes. There's a lot of Rodney, but there's also a lot of adorable, adorable team in his eps. He likes downtime! He likes writing snark and cute interactions! He's also usually the one to write season finales and premiers. (For example The Siege was his, as was were Adrift and TLM and Search & Rescue. The man can do epic, with lots of team on top. ♥)

*picks Gero-ep icon for comment*

Edited 2008-08-03 08:47 (UTC)

Ah, no, Gero didn't do "Tao" - that's Damian Kindler (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0454307/)'s ep. He wrote only a little bit of SGA. He's also responsible for "Trinity"...basically, if you think Gero is the McKay fanboy, you don't know Kindler. He's left the show to do the Sanctuary TV show now, which is VERY VERY sad-making. VERY VERY VERY. *whimper*

(And Mullie wrote TLM, and also Siege 2...)

*headdesk*

Always eat breakfast before trying to make a point!!

...so embarrassed now. orz

Ack! You reply too fast! I hit 'post' before my comment was done, wanted to edit it with: Kindler also wrote the story for SG-1's "Need", if you were looking for other reasons to love him.

Also wanted to share in the Cooper love (I've loved Cooper since SG-1, he's one of the very first writers I ever started watching for, because I loved his Daniel so) and the Wright love (Wright looooves the physical h/c. He did "38 Minutes," my favorite Sheppard-whump by far. He also wrote SG-1's "Serpent's Lair", with the first Jack-Daniel hug, which gives me...hope...for certain eps-to-come...)

Oh, oh! And Cooper wrote "Hide & Seek" (or at least co-wrote?), which was the episode that made me fall in love with Rodney. In case I needed more reasons to love him. XD

Man, Kindler also did "Trinity"... Too bad he's vanished.

Didn't Wright also write SG-1's "Abyss"? Or was that Cooper, or someone else? (Both Wright & Cooper are SO about the team love and the bonds the character share, seeing their names in the credits does make me squee!)

...Gero wrote Siege 3 is totally what I meant to say. The rest I DON'T KNOW. Stupid brain. *kicks*

if they changed the name to The David Hewlett Show: The Further Adventures of Rodney McKay, I'd be there with bells on.

Yeah, see, this is me, too. While if David were to choose to leave, I'd still watch the show, my enthusiasm for it would plummet. He's my guy (much as Jack was on SG-1), and I love the McKay heavy episodes.

I don't pay all that much attention to who's writing the episodes except for the fact that it seems Mallozzi tends to screw up canon more than any of the other writers and that drives me a little batshit.

Also, I noticed in this episode that McCullough had McKay pissy in the 'jumper long before there was any need for Pissy!McKay. While I love Rodney being pissy under pressure, I don't like it just for the sake of making him snotty and nasty.

But I absolutely adore Gero's episodes.

As a Rodney fan I like Gero, but I've got issues with him, too. But Gero didn't write "Quarantine", that was Carl Binder. Binder's one of my favorites, actually, when it comes to team eps; while he doesn't really have plots so much, I find his eps some of the most rewatchable - he balances everyone well, and tends to include a lot of cute moments (see "Aurora" or "Echoes"). McCullough, as new kid on the Atlantis block, seems to take his cues the most from Binder (such as tech-savvy Teyla); he's better at handling plots, but doesn't have as much sweet.

I've been meaning to do a post on the SGA writers, because they're as distinctive in their characterizations and styles as fanfic writers. Run into trouble with Mallozzi & Mullie, though - they write separately but are always credited together, and I don't know which wrote what of s1-3. They're both the worst writers on the show (imo) but they have different weaknesses - Mallozzi can't write exposition to save his life but is into TEAM and occasionally can pull off genuinely touching moments; Mullie has a better handle on scifi plots than most of the writers, but is utterly emotionally tone-deaf. Am very curious which of them is responsible for the quite-decent "Suspicion" or the awful "The Tower".

Cross-commenting!

I think you need to write your post on SGA writers so that I have somewhere to show people my opinions on them. *g*

Er, re-reading my answer, I hope it didn't come across as dismissive to you. I'm only just now (in other threads) working through *why* I don't really get into that particular level of meta-commentary, in most cases -- and I didn't mean to toss off an overly glib answer and dismiss the points you made.

No, no problem at all! I totally understand not being into some kinds of meta, or not feeling like doing meta in general sometimes. We're good. :)

I must be easy too, because at the end of every episode this season I've just been "*FLAIL*LOVE*FLAIL*". I mean, it can't last forever, but I'm enjoying it so much. RODNEY AND BABY was adorable. Rodney and Teyla, the techie dynamic duo was also full of love!

Awww. And John fanboying himself!

Haha, and ROdney rolling his eyes at John fanboying himself. Actually, I think the whole team sort of did a group eyeroll at him.

(And John: "There are FEELINGS happening here!" *flees*)

*DIES* YES!

I'm all about the *flail* *love* right now (except for Seed, as noted, but I do think my state of mind at the time had a lot to do with it). This season has been wonderful! I think they've finally hit the perfect note on the team dynamic -- snarky, dorky, loving, not too sappy and not too distant from each other, with everyone on the team having their part to play.

I really enjoyed this episode too, and felt that it had the perfect team balance. It had a few problems (e.g., I didn't find it plausible that Teyla knew something about the Daedalus's systems that Rodney didn't), but the alternate realities and the ghost-ship aspects more than made up for those moments.

I like your explanation of why and how the alt-team died! It definitely makes more sense than starvation or incompetence.

With the Teyla and Rodney scene, I got the impression that it wasn't so much she knew things he didn't; it was just that she was thinking more clearly than he was. He was stressed and in that mode people get into when they focus on one task for too long. And Rodney really doesn't have to do a task that complex by himself very often -- he usually has other scientists to bounce ideas off of. He was getting very stuck in one mental track and needed to be bounced out of it, and Teyla knew enough about what was he was doing to offer intelligent, helpful suggestions, which was basically what he needed at the moment.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense to me—thanks!

I loved Rodney and the baby, BTW. I thought the reason John left, though, was because Torren went to the bathroom and he was avoiding the smell (which is also why Rodney handed him back to Teyla). The discomfort with feelings could also be playing a part, of course.

Do you happen to know whether the baby is Rachel's actual kid? I've been avoiding looking for the answer to this question for fear of running into spoilers.

No, it's not Rachel's baby. :-) Her son was already a few month old when they filmed this episode.

Thanks much for the info!

Now I need a missing scene fic from someone, starting from the moment they realize they are cut off from the jumper until they get back to the infirmary. Ideally, it'd include:

John coming up with the suits idea (a la Midway)
the team helping Rodney get into his because of his wound (and figuring out how to secure the tablets and guns and whatnot...)
figuring out how to fit Ronon in his
Getting out the airlock and discussing how far away from the ship they needed to be not to get sucked along
Maybe some Rodney-passing-out stuff as they are waiting to get into and then un-suiting in the back of the jumper (mm, smell of burnt flesh!)
The usual trip to the infirmary stuff

Yeah, I'm not asking for much. ;)

*g* I definitely felt somewhat cheated by that last scene (like the final scene of "Misbegotten" -- okay, it wasn't by any means the ONLY thing that was wrong with that episode, but it was one of them!). It's not like we're genuinely afraid the team would get killed, so why not see the escape? It's just a false buildup of suspense that resulted in, basically, cutting away to a different set of characters at one of the most intense parts of the episode.

In other words, tags would be very nice, yes indeed. *g*

Only one thing that I found was a little strange and that's the way John's decision to fire at the unknown ship was handled. He more or less said, ok, let's pick a side and blow them up to hell. He got lucky that it turned out well for him later but that decision could have cost them their lives. I understand that it's supposed to be another one of his "gut instinct" things, but if we get full arcs on why Rodney shouldn't always be allowed free reign despite being a genius, the least they could do is acknowldge the extreme risk John took in essentially jumping into a war within a minute of being in it's presence. Woolsey might bring it up.

Other than that, I loved the episode. I don't like them getting hurt too much either, I'd rather there be a point to it, like if someone's hurt something happens, etc. Not just as a way to induce fuzzy smarm feelings...although they are induced in me, they are definetly induced! *g*

I liked this episode as well. Not as much as you seemed to, but I thought it was a good solid episode.

Some high points...

The nice mix up of the pairings. We saw Ronon and Teyla, Teyla and John, Teyla and Rodney, Ronon and John, and John and Rodney.

Ronon listens to Rodney. And remembers some of what Rodney has told him. And he uses that to comfort a friend. I love Ronon "Try not to worry about the things you have no control over" world view.

I also loved the conversation between Teyla and Rodney...and Rodney's promise to get her back to Atlantis. Rodney may not best people person they have, but he does care about some of them. A lot. He just does a bad job at showing it most of the time.

The baby stuff. I like how they are working that into the story. We don't need to see the baby every week - as long as the mention him from time to time. I did like that Rodney is irate that Teyla won't let him hold Torren...not because he wants to hold him, but because he wants Teyla to trust that he can hold him. (It does make me wonder - would David let Rodney hold Baz?)

I liked how different the universes were. Some changes were small - others big. It was a nice touch.

I didn't like the John and John exchange at the end as much as some others seem to. I thought it went on a bit to long. It felt like they ran short and needed to fill some time. I didn't mind Rodney's stuff as much - in part because it was shorter and also more spread out. Also Rodney would fan-boy himself. John - not so much. Mostly because be would be to weirded it out by the idea to do to much)

So all in all a good episode.

I finally watched it. I loved Rodney whining about not holding the baby and his screeching when he got shot but I felt it was a bit..flat is the only word I can think of. Lorne and Zelenka weren't really much use. But much teaminess and I'll look for the next episode :D

SGA 5x04

Longer than I'd planned...oops!

Re: Longer than I'd planned...oops!

Re: Longer than I'd planned...oops!

Re: Longer than I'd planned...oops!

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My opinions on the SGA writers; let me show you them

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Re: My opinions on the SGA writers; let me show you them

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